EL GUAPO TR: Who is your audience? When you write these songs who are they written for? Raphael: Our audience is mostly friends and acquaintances. The songs are written more as formal excersises with the audience not exactly at the forefront of consideration. Justin: These songs weren't really written for anybody. We were going through a bad time as a band when they were written. We all lived together, had just graduated school and were trying to figure out, you know, "What the fuck?" Sometimes I think they were written to please some screwy idea of what the other members wanted to hear. Other times I think that they were written individually with no regard for the tastes or interests of the other members. Think of a latter-day Beatles where one day, McCartney shows up and lays down a piano part, then Lennon comes in the next day and puts down a guitar, etc. etc. until the song is done, but none of the band has seen each other....Er, but then imagine a Beatles that no one really cares about whose records don't sell well. Nate: Our audience is whoever likes us, i guess...we're not trying to target a specific group of people, i.e. "This will go over great with the po-mo-art-prog crowd"... Pete: Unfortunately I think the audience is people kind of like us, though I wish to think El Guapo is for one and all. I don't really write any of them. Well no, I guess I've written parts here and there--for nobody in particular. TR: Why write in the art rock/art jazz/dissonance sound? Are you providing an alternative? Justin: Alternative to what? Yeah...I guess we have punk roots and still try to play punk venues, so we're an alternative to generic emo or spazz or indie-rock. But if you want to hear art rock there's a whole universe of music out there not unlike ours...Frank Zappa, Can, Tom Waits, blah blah blah. We're not geniuses or even incredibly original, obviously. Raphael: Not consciously trying to provide an alternative. I think we were trying to do something we thought was interesting in order to justify spending so much time and energy on the project. We were self conscious about not repeating the things that others were doing... Maybe too much so. As to why do it, certainly not for money or popularity! Just to work out some ideas about music... Nate: An alternative to what? The music on "geography" wasn't intended to be any sort of response or answer to or against a genre of music or scene. Any 'art rock/dissonance/etc' is the result of the collaboration between the four different musicians and their ideas. Pete: An alternative to the normalcy of daily livin', I think you mean. Yes we are. TR: Do you consider theater, or the "happenings"(performance art events) of the 60's an influence in your music? Raphael: Not really... I would say I was influenced by the idea of performance as ritual space that was championed by some avant jazz bands like the Art Ensemble of Chicago... Also, I think we were interested in really opening up to the possibilities of performance... We only scratched the surface of this exploration... we have deviated away from that more now. Justin: Uh...not really only because I don't know much about them. You mean like Fluxus or something? No, that's not really my territory. I grew up listening to Led Zeppelin. Pete: I personally consider the art of the 60's in general to be influential to my entire life. I think Justin especially does (e.g.,Edie Sedgwick). I don't know that "Bro Drinking Paint" has anything to do with El Guapo, but I will say yes to this question. TR: Are you poking fun at music or just having fun, or are you dead serious about this music and expect your audience to react the same? Justin: I don't think we are poking fun at music. Obviously, you can't take some of the material seriously. One of the songs is called "Go for it like Xtreme Sports." If you didn't laugh at that, what's the point? I don't really like the clever Zappa vibe but I guess we are on it sometimes. I really never wanted to be a yuckster, but the music is, at points, a little yuckstery. AT others, though, it's very dark. That's what "Geography of Dissolution" really is...a patchwork, a pastiche. I mean, we couldn't even agree when and where to record the songs in a studio "properly." It's ad-hoc. It's a jigsaw puzzle with no picture when all of the pieces are filled in. Raphael: Well... we aren't dead serious... we took it seriously but tried to have a sense of humor about it as well... This was a difficult process for us that has gotten easier. I think for a while we were really serious about being funny... not exactly the most intuitive approach. Nate: well of course we are serious about the music - but i wouldn't say 'dead serious.' it's absurd to expect your audience to be completely with you when you are being a bit intense. and what's the point if you aren't having fun? and what kind of fun are you having if you can't poke fun at yourself? i think 'information session' is a good example of how seriously el guapo takes itself. Pete: To say *just* having fun seems to kind of belittle the idea that the music might be wicked fun to play, which it is. Bands, making up songs, practicing, playing shows: these are all very easy targets to poke fun at, but El Guapo seems agenda-less to me right now, which is good. TR: In the history of DC music, which has always been intense and somewhat experimental, is the isolating of instrument sounds and use of "classical" instruments the next step? Justin: For some...but...well, not really. I mean a few groups have a cello or an acoustic bass or something, but it's basically used like an electric instrument would be. Other groups (like Rarafre, Rafael's other band) basically play modern chamber music, but they are really few and far between. Most people in DC are still rocking with Gibson SG's and Marshall Stax. Raphael: DC music is defined first and foremost the community of musicians who make it. As such, the "next step" will always be defined by the personalities living in that community. For a while there was a lot of experimentation going on in a certain section of the DC scene, but a lot of those people have moved away and that has subsided... hopefully the freshness and releveance of dc music will continue to hold, although these feel like dire times in the city... As if it is a place where something interested happened, but isn't necessarily happening. Nate: I'm all for the deconstruction of the standard rock instrumentation, especially downplaying the use of guitars. it's especially nice too when the musician is competant on their instrument, the way Rafael and Pete are with the oboe and accordion, respectively. I think the use of electronics and computer processing is another good step forward - especially when used in conjunction with these classical instruments. but aside from DC bands like ABC and Rarafra, which, i think are the cream of the DC crop (along with bands like Orthrelm and Edie Sedgewick), I don't see many other bands in DC tinkering with instrumentation. Pete: I don't think so. The next step I guess will be found by those who really want to find the next step, not to sound blaise about it. (Or *Blassie* about it!!!) TR: Is your music even experimental, or is it part of a particular tradition of music? Justin: Very little of our music is truly "experimental," where one writes out a set of directions (a la John Cage) and whatever happens, that's the piece. I'd say our music is...well, maybe avant-garde, in that it's somewhat unusual and not what you hear every day. But, again, we sounded like some of these sixties and seventies groups on "Geography," so is that really "avant-garde" or "advance-guard"? It's more like "retro-garde" or "rear-guard." The second live set on the record (the droney, boring one) sounds more like Varese (mid 20th century modern composer) than the music of the future. Raphael: I would say that the music on the Geography of Dissolution was based in the AACM Chicago tradition of the sixties, and more directly on the band members contact with a member of that community, saxophonist/composer Anthony Braxton... The time spent with him by members of the band during college casts a large shadow over this period... That influence has subsided though, yet the band labors on. Nate: It's experimental if the listener or audience thinks it is. If they don't, then it isn't. Really, El Guapo's just a rock band. Pete: It's not experimental in that a)we aren't trying to "figure something out" by playing, and b) El Guapo doesn't find grounding in "experimental music," the genre I mean. Though there are those little "experimental"(the genre) tricks that El Guapo uses: droning for a while, repeating the same thing over and over, phasing sometimes, doing an "out" solo, etc. The band is the sum of the experiences of the members, metaphysically speaking. TR: Do you think new bands along with the greater separation of the mainstream/major acts from the indie-world and the greater expense of touring than it used to be, will create a new music scene based on the local? Justin: No fucking way! I don't think that the mainstream and the indie-world are growing farther apart...I think that they are growing closer together. I mean, just think of these "little" labels that really have corporate connections. Meanwhile, much of the music on truly local, small labels sounds like Green Day. This is the internet age. The global is the local is the global is the local...there aren't really any weird pockets of totally innovate things going on -- at least not in the US. Everyone knows about everyone else. Raphael: I think that local music scenes have existed for many years, especially in more underground styles of music... Punk for example, had a DC sound, an LA sound, a New York sound, and so on... Electronic music from different locations has decidedly different feels... West coast jazz was different than east coast jazz, go-go music in DC, Miami bass and so on... I think that music based around individual creative impulses rather than focus groups and multi-national corporations etc. will continue to reflect local styles... Nate: In general? not really. bands will always go on tour because going on tour is fun - it's never really been a money making venture unless you can pack venues all over the country. the notion of the 'local scene' is a nice one, and everyone wants their town to be the next d.c./olympia/seattle...but these days people are networking across the country and internationally a lot more i think, partially because the internet makes it easier to get in touch with people from all over and hear their music. Pete: Is touring more expensive because gas prices are high, you mean? That's not a huge issue for music I've been playing currently (I'm writing while on a tour where the car just broke and all tour earnings will be immediately sunk into the Subaru.) In many ways touring makes little sense (and little cents!!!), Rafael and Justin and I and the dudes I'm touring with now have had that conversation a million times. TR: Do you think cities/regions will further develop their own sounds? Raphael : In a way yeah... adding to the last question, I think that there is also a more homogenized underground which is exempt from more localized differences... There is a way in which independent music has become extremely rote that pervades the way a lot of indie bands work... Still, within that there will be people doing things that are more local... Nate: in the same vein as above, i think that music 'scenes' are becoming less based on a locale and more based on similar musical interests. in the underground electronic music community, for instance, you have young kids in southern california or in the east coast putting out music by european and japanese musicians who are on a similar musical wavelength, and vice versa...in some places, an indie artist may be more popular in another country than they are in their hometown Pete: In Ghana, they say "music...is life." I'll let you think about that for a minute. TR: Do you think there is an audience, will there be an audience for this localized music? Justin: The "alternative" music market is a glutted one. Everyone is in a band. The bands aren't really that different. Those bands that haven't become national acts through a combination of talent, connections, good looks and good luck will stay "local," but their music will sound "national" -- they just didn't have the right combination of talent, connections, good looks and good luck! So there will be an audience for the music but not all of the performers will have it. Raphael: Perhaps small ones... Nate: Are you referring to El Guapo as localized music? It's funny, because El Guapo didn't really start out as a D.C. band - we all went to college together in Connecticut. Rafael is the only true D.C. resident in El Guapo. Pete and I don't even live in D.C. now, we're in New York. Unfortunately there has never been a huge audience for El Guapo ever, even in D.C. But the fine young men who continue to play as El Guapo are still making excellent music and having fun doing it, and the bug is catching a bit, I think... Pete: There's not a clammoring throng of people trying to get into the shows I play, if you know what I'm sayin'. TR: Do musicians in general lose credibility with the mass popular audience as their music becomes free as traded mp3s on the Internet? Justin: I'm in full support of free trade of music via mp3 or whatever is next. I don't think musicians lose credibility when their music isn't bought and sold but streamed -- I think they gain it. All these tearful Lars Ulrichs whining about lost royalties have really missed the point. If any artist is really in a position to lose massive amounts of money because of mp3 technology, they should just be happy that enough mf's out there give enough of an f to pirate their music in the first place. What -- are they not already millionnaires? Are they not already making a living? Can anyone really pirate the energy of their live shows or MTV videos? Can't they still make money this way? Two points: 1) In the days before recording when music was generally better, artists didn't complain when other people "stole" their songs. This was the basis of music making! You write a song and are paid for the score, then the song is out of your hands. Your performance of the song isn't sacrosanct. 1,000,000 other people will be playing it on the pianos in their living rooms! The song wasn't yours after a certain point. It was everyone's. Who now remembers who wrote "The Star-Spangled Banner" or "Ave Maria"? These songs have entered the popular lexicon. They are part of our cultural vocabulary. Actually, I guess Francis Scott Key wrote the "Star-Spangled Banner," but the point is the same. Artists should just be happy that people are interested. 2) Let's face it: if you're a musician making your entire living playing music, you have a useless occupation. It may be enjoyable, but it's useless. You aren't correcting social inequality or making life livable for the millions who don't find it so. You aren't producing something that has utility -- like paper clips, or Coca-cola, or Volvos. Your only goal is to get people to dance or be moved or whatever -- this isn't a part of GDP, which is what's really important. So, if you just released the Black Album and are complaining about royalties lost to mp3, just remember: the rest of us who hump through our 9 to 5's every day are basically carrying you. You are lucky we don't cut you loose and put you to work breaking rocks. If this was "Survivor," you'd be kicked off the island. If this was "Lord of the Flies," you'd be fat, useless Piggy with his broken glasses and weak ass conch shell. So just be happy you don't have to punch in and punch out like the rest of us and don't make too much noise about your "missing money." Your wack song, even if it's selling millions now, probably won't be all that hot in six months. Just ask the Spice Girls, NKOTB, the Partridge Family, Thomas Dolby, Jr., Technotronic, Vanilla Ice, and Oasis. You'll be buying that shit in the thrift store dollar bin before long. Just chill out and enjoy the ride. In conclusion, let songs be distributed through mp3 for free! Those people complaining already have money anyway. Raphael: I have no thoughts... Pete: Yes, in our capitalist world when something's price drops, its value (usefulness to the consumer) also seems to drop, and as a musician AND consumer I think that's totally fucked. TR: On a scale with 'profession' at one end and 'hobby' at the other where does being a musician fit? Which side does it lean towards? Justin: Music is unfortunately a hobby. Sparse improvisations don't pay the bills. In the mind, though, of course, it's a profession. But the mind is consigned to the realms of the mind. Raphael: Well, obviously there are financial considerations that prevent us from being a full time endeavor, although it seems like music (inside this band and outside of it) takes up quite a bit of brain power/hours... TR: How important is spontaneity in your music? And in music in general? Raphael: If you mean improvisation, it probably used to be more important... I am kind of down on free improvisation of late, and i used to be a big proponent of it, but spontaneity is important in terms of being able to do what you want to do while playing live... changing things on the fly, etc... Justin: Spontaneity in music is less important than people think. Music should have a spontaneous energy -- like, "Wow, we are rediscovering this as we perform it." As far as spontaneous composition goes, I think it is highly overrated. Who cares if you just wrote that just then? How does it SOUND? That is what's important. Fuck process -- I am interested in product. TR: How is el guapo a rock band? Justin: We sometimes write catchy tunes. Our music has choruses. It's not rock and roll (read Elvis Presley) or Rock (read Led Zep), but if you were explaining it to your grandmother, you would say, "Yeah, we play rock music." Lyrics and choruses...punctuated by some anti-rock elements, but still, for the most part, lyrics and choruses. Raphael: It works within rock circles... It approaches it's music and it's preformances like a rock band does, releases its records that way and so on... we have vocals and lyrics and at this point we'd like to think some of the brashness of rock music... it is also a convenient, generic descriptive term for those unfamiliar or like me unwilling to indulge in ridiculous sub genres of music. TR: Do you feel there is a musical divide in audiences between bands formed of well educated lads and bands that claim to be closer to the street? Justin: Of course. In some ways Geography of Dissolution is a academic record. It's "high minded" and wants to be not just another album. That's the product of the people who made it. We went to college. We met in college. We talk about stoopid stuff, but we also talk about collegiate things. We're part of the intellectual bourgeois. That doesn't mean we are ahead of our time, but we went to a fancy college. You could be part of the intellectual bourgeois without going to college, but most people who are part of that went to school. It's just the way it is. Raphael: Maybe, although I know some folks that have taken that rock n roll street thing and made it into an ideology or something even though they are all collegiate types... there are the artsy types and that takes on a lot of guises... TR: Do you feel there is a musical divide in audiences between bands formed of well educated lads and bands that claim to be closer to the street? Justin: Of course. In some ways Geography of Dissolution is a academic record. It's "high minded" and wants to be not just another album. That's the product of the people who made it. We went to college. We met in college. We talk about stoopid stuff, but we also talk about collegiate things. We're part of the intellectual bourgeois. That doesn't mean we are ahead of our time, but we went to a fancy college. You could be part of the intellectual bourgeois without going to college, but most people who are part of that went to school. It's just the way it is. So when we play with bands that are just playing three chord punk with songs like "Teacher Sux" or "Stinkypants" or whatever, I think we feel a divide. We're snooty, arty people and generally like snooty, arty company as much as we'd sometimes hate to admit it. What can you do. Raphael: Maybe, although I know some folks that have taken that rock n roll street thing and made it into an ideology or something even though they are all collegiate types... there are the artsy types and that takes on a lot of guises... TR: Do you have a day job and what is it? Justin: I'm a case manager at a social service non-profit. My organization provides subsidies to low-income DC residents with HIV. I recently got promoted so now I supervise people, which is weird. I'm really sick of the non-profit grind. There's a lot of would-be musicians at its edges. I look forward to the day that I can stop. Raphael: I'm a researcher on U.S. foreign policy in Cuba and Chile. TR: What influence do you see George Bush having on independent music? Justin: Though I'm not a Bush supporter, I think Bush-bashing is really a waste of time...especially coming from people who think Clinton was this puffy fat miracle. Major-party politics is like major label music: it may sound ok sometimes, but it's just too fake and sugary sweet to go down entirely smooth. Sometimes I think: does it matter who is President? Does it matter who controls the government? et cetera. But then I'm usually in the mood to watch syndicated TV shows, which is never good, ever. Raphael: Well, Clinton was a disappointment, but under Bush I see a more clearly defined other... that along with the recent increase in activism/protest (we are expecting a flood for the world bank meetings here in dc this fall) makes politics and underground music a bit more urgent... i don't know how this will translate though... learn more about El Guapo at their label's website http://www.mudmemory.com